Perhaps the greatest lesson I have learned from the ten years that I have really been awake:
The world is a place of cause and effect. You can never know the full extent of the consequences of your actions. However, the general effects can be distinguished... good creates more good, bad creates more bad. I have run numerous experiments in my life on this and it is very clear to me.
This is why the ends do not justify the means, you will never reach the fullness of the end you want through unjust means, you will only achieve a narrow end at the expense of the greater good.
In everything you do, try to do the right, and you will change the world for the better. This helps us muddle through the incalculable causes and effects in our lives to allow us to produce the ends we want. It is the golden rule in its fullest sense, treat others as you would want to be treated, not just because it is the right thing to do, but because it is practically the most effective thing to do to achieve good ends.
Showing posts with label inward struggle. Show all posts
Showing posts with label inward struggle. Show all posts
Sunday, September 19, 2010
Wednesday, July 14, 2010
Content from a letter to Sarah #2
Written in late June 2009 as part of a letter to Sarah
To continue where I left off with Mammoth cave... there is a cathedral sized room in there that is just indescribable in beauty. It is an aptly named cave. I have gone on a bunch of tours there, one for 5 hours. There is still a good percentage of it that is unmapped. For part of one of the tours, they turn off all the lights. It is the darkest black I have ever experienced.
Looking back on this letter, it took a turn toward describing my mental life, so I thought I would throw out that category for this letter... except the previous paragraph.
My school experience was certainly interesting. I was kind of nerd. Academic team, Gifted and Talented program, you get the picture. I got contacts in 6th grade, and wore them everyday for nearly 8 years before they started to bug my eyes too much and I gave them up. I remember being really self-conscious of my glasses for a long time. Freshman year of college I started feeling much more comfortable with myself, more confident and more willing to let people judge me for who I am.
To continue where I left off with Mammoth cave... there is a cathedral sized room in there that is just indescribable in beauty. It is an aptly named cave. I have gone on a bunch of tours there, one for 5 hours. There is still a good percentage of it that is unmapped. For part of one of the tours, they turn off all the lights. It is the darkest black I have ever experienced.
Looking back on this letter, it took a turn toward describing my mental life, so I thought I would throw out that category for this letter... except the previous paragraph.
My school experience was certainly interesting. I was kind of nerd. Academic team, Gifted and Talented program, you get the picture. I got contacts in 6th grade, and wore them everyday for nearly 8 years before they started to bug my eyes too much and I gave them up. I remember being really self-conscious of my glasses for a long time. Freshman year of college I started feeling much more comfortable with myself, more confident and more willing to let people judge me for who I am.
Tracking my mental development is, for some reason, really interesting to me. In 7th and 8th grade I began to question myself about who I was, who I wanted to be and what trajectory I wanted my life to take. This thought process culminated in 10th grade when I started really feeling lost and was kind of depressed for 6 months. Thinking about one's purpose in life will do that to you. But after being lost in that desert of melancholy for so long, I somehow stumbled upon an epiphany that has been the foundation of my world since then. At the time I couldn't really articulate it, but I had decided that the answer to the question "what is the meaning of life" is "people." (yeah, I am also a stubborn contemplater of unanswerable questions... I am still contemplating the meaning of life a decade later)
It was during this contemplation of myself that I began my core spiritual practices... these are all inherently interconnected but i have kind of broken them down in my own head to include: deep self-reflection, self-improvement processes, emotional and behavioral shaping practices, redefinition of my identity, my experiments with the truth (Gandhi is a big influence on me), my endeavors to understand and empathize with people, and my adherence to a philosophy of generosity. There might be more of them, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
I began my experiments with truth during 7th grade. My first and longest running experiment is with the idea of ends and means and their connection. I have always heard that "the end does not justify the means." Most people take this to mean that even if you get the end you want, if the means was bad, you should feel guilty. I do not think that is what the phrase means. I think it means that if you are seeking just ends, you can never fully reach them if you use unjust means. It is just simply impossible. Now, if you have an unholy end, or a narrow end you *can* achieve it with unjust means. And by "narrow end" I mean you want one thing, only that thing and don't care about the effect on other things. The CIA term "blowback" is an example of this... when they achieve a narrow end but the surrounding environment becomes worse. I have done countless experiments on this hypothesis, through observing my behavior analyzing the results, changing my behavior, seeing what happens, etc. I have been doing this since 1997-ish, although not consciously at first.
The first part of this experiment that I can isolate in my memory is my dealings with bullies. Now, I got picked on alot as a kid. But I had great parents, and they told me to try to understand the bully. So I did. I began consciously struggling to empathize with my attackers. And boy did this pay off. I started naturally acting nice to them, even when they were horrible to me. This just confused them, most of the time. But after awhile I wore them down with my kindness. I remember the turning point with a kid named Anthony Berta. He had a canker sore in his mouth and was complaining about it. I sympathized with him, told him I got those sometimes and they hurt like hell. I offered advice, telling him he should try applying hydrogen peroxide to it. He tried it and about two days later he thanked me. I remember feeling so good from that. And as I observed his behavior from then on he was generally nicer to me. He still made jokes at my expense on occasion, but nothing compared to what had gone on before. This is one reason I have such faith in non-violence. I have seen it work from a very early age.
Another bully named Brad something used to bug me in middle school. He was a big guy, rather aggressive and insecure about himself so he felt the need to act out. I don't remember any specific turning point with him, but I slowly won him over. I won him over so much that sophomore year when he was sitting at our table, being a jerk, and everyone asked him to either stop of leave, he was really surprised when I joined in the request. Reflecting on that whole situation, I think he saw me as his only friend at the table and felt very betrayed when I united with the others to try to get him to stop being a jerk. I felt bad about it for awhile afterward. Apparently kindness is a double-edged sword. I wonder what happened to him, I wish I remembered his last name so I could friend him on facebook.
So, building on this very practical and beneficial application of my experiments, I started toying around with a good percentage of my life. I started applying more and more control over my behavior, learning to let go of anger and to communicate my feelings effectively to de-escalate and conflict-resolve. And as I did this, the predictions emanating from my hypothesis about ends and means were all coming true. If I wanted a better life, treating people well seemed to be the most effective strategy. When I slipped up and conducted myself bady, I could sense tremors in my world in that direction as well. I built up my mind as much as I could into an analysis machine to tease out little cause and effects and after years of doing this I see patterns in the chaos, and they all fit my initial hypothesis. Of course, it could be analytical bias, but either way, it makes me happier than I would be otherwise (this could also be a placebo effect... but who cares).
And so, I came to the conclusion that the ends do not justify the means because you can never get the a truly good end using evil means. I am still conducting this experiment on and off these days, re-testing my conclusion.
My second longest experiment, which I have been conducting in conjunction with the first, was testing the golden rule. As you can see, it fits in very nicely with the first experiment. If I am trying to treat others as I would have them treat me, then I am almost always using good means. It is amazing the good feelings and good fortune that come your way when you try your hardest to follow this rule... but it is damn hard. I started this one in 10th grade, I believe... or maybe I just consciously recognized it in 10th grade. I start alot of things within myself without realizing it, sometimes it goes on for more than a year or two before I recognize it. At this point I was way WAY into Gandhi's philosophy, and it buttressed my analysis from a personal level to a societal level and a method of struggle.
While those are my two major experiments, I have a bunch of smaller ones... probably more than I can remember. I have experimented with leadership styles, conflict resolution, democratic processes, communication processes (both appealing to large audiences and interpersonal), etc. Usually with these experiments, I was the only variable I could change. So, I got really good at controlling my behavior and emotions so I could see what would happen when I acted a certain way. This coupled nicely with my intention to improve myself.
Changing myself has been another one of my major life projects. I don't remember exactly when I started, but I have always had a goal, at first nebulous but now quite clear. This general goal in changing myself is to make the lives of the people around me better. When I was young I remember being selfish, somewhat uptight and arrogant. Well, one day I decided I didn't like those traits in other people, and that I should try to change myself to get rid of those undesirable traits. I think it has been like 10 or more years since I really started working on myself, and I am proud to say I have made alot of progress. I still have problems with arrogance, but I do a good job of hiding it behind a veil of modesty. (For these letters, I feel like I have lifted my veil of modesty somewhat, and it is actually making me anxious to have done so... please don't judge me too harshly as arrogant or self-absorbed). I am also so much calmer than I once was, it is a huge relief.
It is very hard to describe this process for change, it is not explained in English in my head... it is a series of emotions, urges and bulbous shapes (representing concepts and cause and effect relationships) interacting with other bulbous shapes in a kind of weird fluidic space in my mind's eye. But when I find that I am acting in a way that I don't like, I will start a long thinking process, analyzing it and trying to set up triggers in my own mind to prevent me from acting that way again. One of my favorite attempts to change my behavior and thought patterns (because in involves my endeavors to fight sexism in my own mind) is to successfully be aware of the gender dynamics at gatherings, to comment on them to the group, and to break them through my actions. So, that house dinner where Lapedis and Caely came over (you were in Marin with a friend), I commented how, after the meal, Liz and Caely started making cookies and all the men were sitting in the living room talking. I offered to help make cookies, but I was un-needed. It bothers me when people aren't aware of how easily people fall into gender roles, which often means women end up doing alot more work. I will talk more about my feminist tendencies later.
This process also comes with reinforcing good traits, like generosity. I like to think I have achieved a pretty good level with that, I am always on the lookout for ways to be generous to other people... there is a chapter in the book The Prophet that has had an IMMENSE impact on my direction in life, especially when it concerns giving... have you ever read "The Prophet"? Here is a taste:
Then said a rich man, "Speak to us of Giving."
And he answered: You give but little when you give of your possessions.
It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.
For what are your possessions but things you keep and guard for fear you may need them tomorrow?
And tomorrow, what shall tomorrow bring to the over-prudent dog burying bones in the trackless sand as he follows the pilgrims to the holy city?
And what is fear of need but need itself?
Is not dread of thirst when your well is full, thirst that is unquenchable?
Here is a link to it: http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet5.htmlI will probably talk about generosity more later... One of my conclusions about life is its inherent dynamism. Things and people change. I change, and accepting my own dynamic self has allowed me to give it some direction. I think far too many people see themselves as static, and don't realize that they can and should deal with unpleasant feelings that arise so that they do not burden one's life. I know all my emotions come up for a reason, and until I know that reason and have dealt with the root of the emotion, it will not dissipate. And it is within my power to do that. I feel very empowered when it comes to defining myself and pushing myself to be my highest vision for myself. I wish I could give that confidence and technique to other people. I credit a great deal of my happiness to the fact that I am able to deal with unwanted emotions and behavior in a productive and healthy way. Looking back at KY, I realize how much of a difference it would make in people's lives to be able to do this. I wish I could make a constructive campaign around it, like Gandhi did.
Defining myself has been an important journey that, like everything else I have described in this letter seems to, underpins a large swath of my beliefs. When I was in 10th grade, I came to the realization that I did not like identifying myself as an individual. It did not hold any appeal to me. If I defined myself that way, then I should want to acquire at other's expense, and that did not make me feel good. That identity meant selfishness as a way of life, and I was already seeing its negative effects in my own life and the lives of those around me. So I endeavored to shed my individual identity in favor of a more collectivist model. The best way of describing this is to look at your hand. Now, I can think of myself as a finger, or I can think of myself as part of the hand. I prefer to think of myself as part of the hand. My well-being is inherently tied to my community, and everyone in the community is tied to each other. Seeing ourselves as isolated individuals is just out of touch with reality. Defining myself in this way has made it not only easy to give, but made it the only logical thing to do.
There are alot of interesting manifestations of this identity. For example, when I am somewhere with unemployed friends... I feel like if they pay that I am somehow getting more hurt than if I pay. (I, here, refers to my identity as a part of a group) They have a finite pool of money that is not being recharged, so if they spend money it is more detrimental than if I or someone who has income pays. It is hard to explain, and I don't think I am doing the best job. but suffice to say this identity has really motivated me to protect/help my community, even if i have to sacrifice a disproportionately high number of things myself. I think many American's don't understand this mentality even when some of them subscribe to it in their own communities... and our world would be a much better place if they did understand it.
I have actually found that playing with my identity is one of the more powerful things I can do to change myself. I am generally kind of shy, but I have made great strides in changing that through trying to define myself as a more outgoing person. This is especially effective when I am in roles where I think other people expect me to be outgoing... like as a camp counselor or a host of a party. There is so much potential for how I could change myself, I have pushed my identity toward more generosity, more kindness, more willingness to forgive, less anger and more calm. And overall, it has made me a thousand times more happier. It is an incredible tool for self-improvement. I think most people, especially kids, simply take up the identity that other people ascribe to them. I wonder what would happen if I could teach this to repeat prisoners and motivate them to see themselves differently. Religion often has this effect, from what I have seen with prisons.
Part of all this interconnected mess is self-reflection. I think about myself alot, maybe too much. I observe my emotions, my behavior, my thoughts, and my motivations. When I first started doing this, I looked at everything and spent years thinking about it. But now, I think I have examined most of myself that I want to reinforce, so I mostly stick to things that bug me, and new things that arise. I mull them over, then over again. As you can see by this series of letters, I can write way too much about myself when I have an interested audience. This process has become second nature to me now, as with most of my spiritual practices. I do it without even trying, and often have to quiet it down to get to sleep at a reasonable hour. It is this process that gives me the strong sense of who I am, which has not really been shaken since maybe senior year in high school.
Anyway, that's enough for this letter... to be continued.
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The Prophet
Some content from a letter to Sarah #1
Here is some content that I wrote to Sarah around June in 2009.
I have always liked the idea of letters. They are like time travel, you get to send a message to someone in the future. And then that person gets to send it to you in the future. They also let you go into much more depth than phone, texts, or even email. Somehow email seems like it should be shorter in my mind, even though it is basically an electronic letter.
So, since we aren't able to get to know each other better face to face, letters will have to do. OK... so i'll start out by starting a mini-bio and see where that takes me.
I suppose I have led an unusual and interesting life so far. I grew up in rural Kentucky, in a town of 1500, surrounded by nature. I am the son of back-to-the-lander hippies, although they never got into farming. My Dad says he was never any good at it, but I remember planting and harvesting some really killer peas in our garden. They were so tasty. Growing up I helped my parents build our house (as much as a 3 to 12 year old can). I watched so intently and actually picked up alot of carpentry from it... but I think working with my hands runs in my blood. All my male blood relatives in my parents generation and both my grandfathers are/were carpenters. Some of my male non-blood relatives in my parents generation are/were carpenters as well. I really love building things, like that bed frame I cobbled together from dumpstered wood. I have wanted to learn to make nice-looking furniture for awhile, not just practical dumpster-scrounged constructs.
We lived on a 70 acre plot of land, mostly forest. Our house is on a ten acre field in the middle of the property. We get our water from a natural spring that has never gone dry in living memory, despite the droughts the area has gone through. I love that water, it is soooo delicious. As a kid I would go off into the forest with friends and sometimes alone and explore. Most often along the banks of nearby creeks. Our land bordered a smallish river where we would go swimming. It is amazing to live next to a river and to see it change over the years. The swimming holes shifted dramatically, as did this island where we used to hang out. Getting down to the river was a trip though. Probably a quarter of a mile walk, with stinging nettle at the end of the walk to punctuate it. I remember that pain pretty clearly, probably because I received a dose of it on a regular basis for a large swath of my childhood. It was with that experience that I conducted some of my first experiments with consciously suppressing pain. When I was like 12 or 13 I can clearly remember myself leading a group of friends down to the river and single-handedly clearing a path through the nettle with a stick so my friends could make it through unscathed. At that point i had managed to ignore the pain enough to complete the task. The worst part though, was if you were wearing flip-flops and there were nettle leaves on the ground... they would sting your toes. Anyway, that experience with ignoring and suppressing pain, i think, was the precursor to alot of my experiments with changing my emotions and behavior.
I went to school in a town an hour away, because my parents thought that their public school system was much better than the one in my home town (it was). My parents taught me true generosity through their selfless pursuit of putting me and my brother first, I hope to return the favor to my own kids one day. I think this early example of selflessness made it very easy for me decide to do my best to live a generous life.
I saw many things in Kentucky that have greatly affected my outlook and direction in life, such as the high rate of poverty there (23% of the population is below the poverty line in my home county in 2006). I am strangely proud of the fact that my parents weren't well off while raising me... for my first 7 years of life we had an outhouse. I remember the day my Dad installed our first toilet. My childhood imbued me with a passion to tackle social ills. I think especially the juxtaposition of the incredible hardships people had with the generally caring attitudes they had towards each other has convinced me from an early age that 1. people are inherently good and 2. that it doesn't matter what shit people have to go through, as long as they are with other people, they can get through it.
I saw racism and experienced its impact on other people. I know that growing up in a racist culture has imbued me with alot of racism, and it bugs the hell out of me. I make it a point to fight the passive racism in my own mind whenever I notice it, and to actively work to notice it. If I have what I consider a racist thought, I feel pretty bad and commit myself to not letting it influence my behavior and trying to ensure I stop having those thoughts. My own process for self-reflection and self-improvement has actually changed me a great deal... I will go into that later though, probably in a following letter. One of the scariest things I remember was that in my high school my senior year, every freshman male black student had atleast one failing grade. The school was about 40% African American. While it was not segregated per se, it was de facto segregation. The different races (mostly white, black, latino) didn't mix much. The cafeteria really showed this, with each group colonizing its own section every day.
I remember hearing lots of racist jokes, many of them told seriously. I also remember hearing of a big KKK rally, and a counter-protest called Unity Day during my sophomore High School year. I don't remember why I couldn't make it, but I really wish I had been able to. Most of my teachers were gung-ho about the Unity Day counter protest, which I remember thinking that was amazing. I also heard that it got a much larger turnout than expected and was significantly bigger than the KKK rally.
One of my favorite memories from childhood is star-gazing. We star-gazed alot. I have seen meteors that lit up the entire sky. In 2001 during a particularly spectacular Leonid shower in November, a group of friends and I stayed out all night watching. There were over 100 per hour that night, it was by far the most spectacular meteor shower I have seen. I remember watching comet Hale-Bopp hover in the sky for days, and be almost visible during early morning and late evening. And our sky was absolutely spectacular. On a clear night with a new moon, I could see millions of stars. The Milky Way was very clear and if you closed your eyes for a few minutes and then looked, oh, it would take your breath away. I have always had a love of space (yeah, i am a geek like that), which i atleast partly credit to the awe-inspiring sky I stared at as I grew up.
I was consistently in awe of nature during my childhood. We had a few giant trees on our land, which I found fascinating. They had survived the logging that happened in the early 70s (before my parents bought the land) because they marked the edge of the property. My Dad loves trees and taught me tons of random facts about them, how to recognize some of the species, and how to take care of the forest (which mostly involved leaving it alone). Did you know that if there is a vine growing on a tree (a tree you don't want a vine growing on), that the best way to kill it is not to chop it off, or pull it off but to just remove all the vine's bark in a circle around the base of the vine. This will slowly kill both the roots and the vine's trunk... this method works with most plants. The wildlife around my house was great. There were deer everywhere, lots of rabbits and infinite numbers of insects. I have almost stepped on copperheads (the only deadly snake in KY) 3 times, they are probably the animal I dislike the most. I am also not a big fan of skunks, having been within 2 feet of one, before both of us noticed each other (it was dark and i was walking without a flashlight). We both ran like a bat out of hell. Mammoth cave is also just utterly fantastic... To Be Continued next letter...
I have always liked the idea of letters. They are like time travel, you get to send a message to someone in the future. And then that person gets to send it to you in the future. They also let you go into much more depth than phone, texts, or even email. Somehow email seems like it should be shorter in my mind, even though it is basically an electronic letter.
So, since we aren't able to get to know each other better face to face, letters will have to do. OK... so i'll start out by starting a mini-bio and see where that takes me.
I suppose I have led an unusual and interesting life so far. I grew up in rural Kentucky, in a town of 1500, surrounded by nature. I am the son of back-to-the-lander hippies, although they never got into farming. My Dad says he was never any good at it, but I remember planting and harvesting some really killer peas in our garden. They were so tasty. Growing up I helped my parents build our house (as much as a 3 to 12 year old can). I watched so intently and actually picked up alot of carpentry from it... but I think working with my hands runs in my blood. All my male blood relatives in my parents generation and both my grandfathers are/were carpenters. Some of my male non-blood relatives in my parents generation are/were carpenters as well. I really love building things, like that bed frame I cobbled together from dumpstered wood. I have wanted to learn to make nice-looking furniture for awhile, not just practical dumpster-scrounged constructs.
We lived on a 70 acre plot of land, mostly forest. Our house is on a ten acre field in the middle of the property. We get our water from a natural spring that has never gone dry in living memory, despite the droughts the area has gone through. I love that water, it is soooo delicious. As a kid I would go off into the forest with friends and sometimes alone and explore. Most often along the banks of nearby creeks. Our land bordered a smallish river where we would go swimming. It is amazing to live next to a river and to see it change over the years. The swimming holes shifted dramatically, as did this island where we used to hang out. Getting down to the river was a trip though. Probably a quarter of a mile walk, with stinging nettle at the end of the walk to punctuate it. I remember that pain pretty clearly, probably because I received a dose of it on a regular basis for a large swath of my childhood. It was with that experience that I conducted some of my first experiments with consciously suppressing pain. When I was like 12 or 13 I can clearly remember myself leading a group of friends down to the river and single-handedly clearing a path through the nettle with a stick so my friends could make it through unscathed. At that point i had managed to ignore the pain enough to complete the task. The worst part though, was if you were wearing flip-flops and there were nettle leaves on the ground... they would sting your toes. Anyway, that experience with ignoring and suppressing pain, i think, was the precursor to alot of my experiments with changing my emotions and behavior.
I went to school in a town an hour away, because my parents thought that their public school system was much better than the one in my home town (it was). My parents taught me true generosity through their selfless pursuit of putting me and my brother first, I hope to return the favor to my own kids one day. I think this early example of selflessness made it very easy for me decide to do my best to live a generous life.
I saw many things in Kentucky that have greatly affected my outlook and direction in life, such as the high rate of poverty there (23% of the population is below the poverty line in my home county in 2006). I am strangely proud of the fact that my parents weren't well off while raising me... for my first 7 years of life we had an outhouse. I remember the day my Dad installed our first toilet. My childhood imbued me with a passion to tackle social ills. I think especially the juxtaposition of the incredible hardships people had with the generally caring attitudes they had towards each other has convinced me from an early age that 1. people are inherently good and 2. that it doesn't matter what shit people have to go through, as long as they are with other people, they can get through it.
I saw racism and experienced its impact on other people. I know that growing up in a racist culture has imbued me with alot of racism, and it bugs the hell out of me. I make it a point to fight the passive racism in my own mind whenever I notice it, and to actively work to notice it. If I have what I consider a racist thought, I feel pretty bad and commit myself to not letting it influence my behavior and trying to ensure I stop having those thoughts. My own process for self-reflection and self-improvement has actually changed me a great deal... I will go into that later though, probably in a following letter. One of the scariest things I remember was that in my high school my senior year, every freshman male black student had atleast one failing grade. The school was about 40% African American. While it was not segregated per se, it was de facto segregation. The different races (mostly white, black, latino) didn't mix much. The cafeteria really showed this, with each group colonizing its own section every day.
I remember hearing lots of racist jokes, many of them told seriously. I also remember hearing of a big KKK rally, and a counter-protest called Unity Day during my sophomore High School year. I don't remember why I couldn't make it, but I really wish I had been able to. Most of my teachers were gung-ho about the Unity Day counter protest, which I remember thinking that was amazing. I also heard that it got a much larger turnout than expected and was significantly bigger than the KKK rally.
One of my favorite memories from childhood is star-gazing. We star-gazed alot. I have seen meteors that lit up the entire sky. In 2001 during a particularly spectacular Leonid shower in November, a group of friends and I stayed out all night watching. There were over 100 per hour that night, it was by far the most spectacular meteor shower I have seen. I remember watching comet Hale-Bopp hover in the sky for days, and be almost visible during early morning and late evening. And our sky was absolutely spectacular. On a clear night with a new moon, I could see millions of stars. The Milky Way was very clear and if you closed your eyes for a few minutes and then looked, oh, it would take your breath away. I have always had a love of space (yeah, i am a geek like that), which i atleast partly credit to the awe-inspiring sky I stared at as I grew up.
I was consistently in awe of nature during my childhood. We had a few giant trees on our land, which I found fascinating. They had survived the logging that happened in the early 70s (before my parents bought the land) because they marked the edge of the property. My Dad loves trees and taught me tons of random facts about them, how to recognize some of the species, and how to take care of the forest (which mostly involved leaving it alone). Did you know that if there is a vine growing on a tree (a tree you don't want a vine growing on), that the best way to kill it is not to chop it off, or pull it off but to just remove all the vine's bark in a circle around the base of the vine. This will slowly kill both the roots and the vine's trunk... this method works with most plants. The wildlife around my house was great. There were deer everywhere, lots of rabbits and infinite numbers of insects. I have almost stepped on copperheads (the only deadly snake in KY) 3 times, they are probably the animal I dislike the most. I am also not a big fan of skunks, having been within 2 feet of one, before both of us noticed each other (it was dark and i was walking without a flashlight). We both ran like a bat out of hell. Mammoth cave is also just utterly fantastic... To Be Continued next letter...
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